Kathy Harvey:
Welcome to The Application, the podcast series from Saïd Business School, featuring some of the extraordinary personalities who were offered a place on the Executive MBA here at Oxford University. I'm Kathy Harvey.
As associate dean, I've been involved with the people who've embarked on this journey for over half the 20 years since the programme was established. This is my chance to reconnect with them and to hear more about their struggles and their achievements, personal and professional.

Tobyn Brooks:
I left hospital I think in 2018, and at that point I really had to decide: Do I want to live or do I want to die?

Kathy Harvey:
And to learn the leadership lessons we can all take from these inspiring alumni.

Tobyn Brooks:
My achievements are not something that are unique to me. They're a feature of our species. And once we can believe in that, in all people, then I think we can all do amazing things.

Kathy Harvey:
I'm delighted to be joined today by Tobyn Brooks. Tobyn is COO and chairman of a specialist car restorer, The Figaro Group, and a network of specialist car repair studios and related businesses in the south of England. His reconditioned cars are bought by enthusiasts and celebrities from across the world, and they've even featured on television shows.
So Tobyn, I know you have ambitious goals for your future and for the future of your businesses, but can we start by talking about your past? Because you came to this position through what many would consider to be a very challenging start.

Tobyn Brooks:
Yeah. Well, firstly, thank you for having me. I'm really excited, and hopefully my story will inspire some of your listeners. So about the age of 11, I started taking drugs, and by the time I was 13, I was taking heroin. I left school at 16 and worked as a drug mule for many years and lived in the back of cars and on the streets. I struggled through that time to abstain despite many interventions. The sort of culmination of those challenges was damage to my health: liver failure, kidney failure, and eventually vascular disease. And the vascular disease meant that I had these holes over my arms and legs, and that led to a number of surgeries. After I think 20 surgeries, I was due to have a double leg amputation in 2016.
At that point I met a professor from Oxford called Hank, an amazing man, and he said he would make an attempt to make a set of legs out of parts of my body. So through many quite intense surgeries, he made a set of legs. I left hospital I think in 2018, and I could only walk with a frame. I think I weighed well over 20 stone. At that point I really had to decide: Do I want to live or do I want to die? And I decided to live.

Kathy Harvey:
It's a summary I know you've thought a lot about and reflected on. I'd just like to take you back, if you don't mind, to when you were 11 and ask you if you can remember or have any reflections on how you started down that path of drug addiction.

Tobyn Brooks:
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I think that it was because I felt very different and very awkward in my own skin. I didn't ever feel like I fitted in. It was interesting, I was having this conversation with some colleagues a couple of weeks ago, some colleagues from my class, and I said, all the times in my life when I've been a blue-collar worker learning to restore cars, when I was trafficking drugs as a teenager, as I grew up in a very religious environment, I'd never really felt myself and felt comfortable. But the diversity of Oxford and the amazing people from all these different far-reaching parts of the world made me feel at home. And it's the first time in my life that I felt truly that I can be myself. So to answer the question, it was feeling like the odd one out, and that's why Oxford is so being like full circle for me.

Kathy Harvey:
So for you, what was the turning point where you made a decision to grasp life?

Tobyn Brooks:
So I only ever worked out the turning point on reflection, but on reflection, there was a time where I came out of a consultant's waiting room, and at this point I'd had 17 surgeries and had been told by some amazing people that there isn't anything else we can do. I'd entered the room thinking that I might be due for a left foot amputation. And the surgeon had sort of quite, it felt light heartedly said to me, "No, it's not the foot. It's above the knee and it's both legs, and you're going to die unless you do it soon." And he'd booked me in for three months time. I came out of the waiting room and I sat on the bench outside, which was a low bench, a bit like the ones that you get in primary schools. I couldn't wear shoes anymore at that point, and I had these sandals on, I looked down and I could just about wiggle the toe, the big toe on my left foot.
Whether I said it out loud or not, I don't know, but I said, "You're not taking them, you're not having them." And that was really the point where I had to decide to live. That feeling of you are not taking my legs evolved into if you're not taking my legs, then I need to live and I need to choose life. Living meant that I needed to make some contribution to society. I hadn't ever had a job. And I realised that entrepreneurship was probably the only option that I had. I started selling car parts on eBay and making a couple of pounds here and there, and eventually made enough to buy a car and I taught myself to restore the car. When I sold it, the customer was overwhelmed. And that was the beginning of what's been an amazing journey.
I realised that innovation and entrepreneurship is this most pure form of change, and it's something that makes the world better and can change the world. If I was going to pursue this and I wanted to be the best version of an entrepreneur that I could be, then I needed a couple of things. And firstly, that was I needed my health, and secondly, I needed the best education that I could get. So I went from pretty illiterate, not being able to spell university, which I didn't tell anybody, to learning basic academics. And then eventually obviously graduating from the EMBA at the end of last year. I went from not walking to running marathons. So yeah, that's how I ended up at Oxford.

Kathy Harvey:
It's a long way from that recovery, emotional and physical, to owning your own business and then applying for Oxford. Give me an idea of the stepping stones.

Tobyn Brooks:
Yeah. So I think it was gradual, and the way that I like to think about these changes in life, which might be useful for people that are listening, is that there's always some type of crossover. So you know while I was recovering my health, I was building the business on the side. And then as that got better, I started to look at how do I become better at business? How does one understand? Until the questions about how do people build huge companies were just in the forefront of my mind and I was obsessed with how could I be better at this business game. So the stepping stones were always quite gradual, but I think it was reaching a point in my business where I knew there was potential in the business, but I didn't know how to build an organisational structure that would take me there.
I think for everybody that I met during my time studying, there is always a hollow feeling around the potential and around that there's something left to understand and there's something left, and how do I clutch at that thing and become better? The point that sticks in my mind though was eventually finding out that there was this thing called an MBA, which was a masters of business administration, and then looking through some of the websites to see how it worked and coming across the Oxford website and there was a phrase that said, "We are building leaders that are changing the world." At that point, the switch flicked and I realised that I had to come to Oxford. It was the right place for Oxford and for me. Yeah, although I'd started considering I might do GCSEs and go all the way through, I found this alternative route through the executive assessment and through studying at home and getting tutors and things like that. So that was how it came about.

Kathy Harvey:
You applied for the course. Were you thinking, "I'll give this a go, but it's a long shot"? Or by then, had you reached a point where you felt confident enough in your achievements to put yourself before the admissions committee and think, "I can do this"?

Tobyn Brooks:
I think one of the things that I've been lucky enough to develop and something that I would love for people that listen to this to also appreciate is the infinite potential of every human being on the planet. I think that when we believe in that potential in ourselves and in others, then we can all do incredible things. My achievements are not something that are unique to me. They're a feature of our species. Once we can believe in that, in all people, then I think we can all do amazing things. So I think by the time I was applying, I knew that I would be an outlier, but I believed it. I could see myself sitting in the class and all of those things. So that was what pushed me through. Because when I started, it was my girlfriend's 13-year-old son that taught me maths. As I mentioned, I was doing an executive assessment and there was times where I would get 99% of the marks wrong, and that was okay, I knew I was going to get there.

Kathy Harvey:
The executive assessment is a test that business schools use all across the world for applicants for the Executive MBA. You managed to get through that. I can't remember how you did, but I'm sure it was fine. People always worry about being interviewed to study at Oxford and assume that it's going to be a really tough experience. Were you given a hard time?

Tobyn Brooks:
No. And you're quite right. I'd prepared for my interview and written essays, and was looking forward to having a robust argument about why my essays were credible. It was something that I had a lot of anticipation, a lot of nervous anticipation leading up to, but I just remember that it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it was going to be. It was quite enjoyable.

Kathy Harvey:
So people should take note if they're thinking about it.

Tobyn Brooks:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Kathy Harvey:
So talking about that business, The Figaro business, I'm interested in how you built that up because you started very small and now it's well known and celebrities have bought the cars. You have a particular way of managing your teams as well within the network of businesses you run. Can you paint us a bit of a picture of how you built that business up and also how you think about the teams who work for you now?

Tobyn Brooks:
Yes. I mean, something that I've found that works for me is learning by doing. So I try and learn something until I get to an average point and then teach somebody else. And that was how the business started. But I think in terms of how we look after the teams, I think, fundamentally, leaders are here to try and make the world a better place. As long as that's your foundation and that's the core of your motivation, then you are probably going to do pretty well and be successful, especially in terms of people. I try and distil that into two very clear points, and I'm quite doctrinaire about this with our managers in that we make people feel loved and cared for and we drive economic prosperity. Those are the two things we do. And if you do those things, we won't ever have a problem. And that's really important.

Kathy Harvey:
Have you ever had a situation in the business where you've had to make a really difficult leadership decision that doesn't sit easily with your own values and the way you like to work?

Tobyn Brooks:
I mean, sometimes I find I still have to revert to utilitarianism because there are times where I would love to bring out the potential in a human being, but they're too damaging to the organisation. And that's where you have to be a leader and you have to do the thing for the greater good and you have to remove somebody.

Kathy Harvey:
Are you talking about having to make people redundant or letting people go?

Tobyn Brooks:
Both really. I mean, when you build an organisation and you make a claim that you want to make people feel loved and cared for in the organisation, and when there's a time when you have to make a decision not to do that for the good of everybody else, then that's tough because I think it's easy in this world to state values and claim something. So if you really want to live by the things that you you're going to claim, then you need to think carefully and you need to try and lose your ego and lose all those negative emotions around fear and shame and all of those things. You truly need to live by it.

Kathy Harvey:
There's a lot of talk about leadership as an authentic practise, being an authentic leader or being a charismatic leader or being a servant leader. When you hear those phrases and when you were sitting in a class teaching leadership, what were your reflections?

Tobyn Brooks:
Towards the end of the course, I became quite fascinated with a theory called Ecological Leadership by Simon Weston. It's basically the theory that the modern leader in this most recent epoch of leadership has to flex between different styles. And I think that's really important. I think it's intelligent virtue by an Oxford scholar, but the thing I took away from that, which was our ethics class with Alan Morrison, was authenticity and virtue is something that's personal to each one of us. And we have to understand ourselves. Once we understand ourselves, we can be virtuous, but my virtue might be different from your virtue. And I think that is about leadership. It's about discovering who you are as a leader, the things that matter, and then living by those things.

Kathy Harvey:
I think as well, there's a lot about relationships in leadership and how you influence and make relationships and how other people influence you. So you talked about Hank, the surgeon who managed to reconstruct your legs and give you the opportunity to go out and end up running half-marathons. Can you say a little bit about how that relationship changed you or his actions changed you?

Tobyn Brooks:
Yes. I mean, I think it's, the actions of probably five or six people throughout my life are the foundation of my own leadership style in that there are people in the world that are so selfless and have so much love to offer. So much of those lovely emotions that we should all look for in life made me realise that that's where success truly comes from.
Some of the nurses that looked after me and stuck with me for 10 years when I was wasting their time, and I can remember one of them when I finally recovered, saying to them, "If I ever find a way to touch people in the same way that you've touched me with your love and commitment to somebody that didn't deserve it, then I'll do that." And I think entrepreneurship can be that. It is possible to turn these things that are economic transactions into something that creates joy and love. I think when you do that, you make the world a better place. When I came to Oxford, I started hearing a lot about impact and hung on to that. And I think it took me nearly two years, but one of the things that I discovered was that that's my way of creating impact.

Kathy Harvey:
Just staying a little bit on your earlier life, you came out of hospital and you had to go and live with your mom because you were recovering and yet to set up your business. Have you talked to her about some of the things that happened to you? And how does she see your success now?

Tobyn Brooks:
I mean, they're very proud now and were elated when I graduated from Oxford. I think that when one goes through a significant trauma, often it's like being in a movie and you don't really see it. So it was actually a lot harder to relive those things in the sober world in that context. So without a doubt, I've caused significant trauma to all of my family. I think that I spent a number of years absolutely riddled with shame and fear and anxiety about some of the things that I'd done during my life.
One of the things that was a turning point for me, if you're familiar with it, was Brené Brown and the theory of vulnerability that she researches. She says that although vulnerability is the core of shame and fear and anxiety, it's also the launch pad for innovation and for love and for happiness. And I think that's why I decided to share my story because the only way that I can make good in the world is to try and do positive things as a leader. And that's the thing that drives me. But I think vulnerability is something that we all need to embrace to grow.

Kathy Harvey:
You've done that. You've started to run workshops about your experience. You've also developed your own formula for success and for leadership. Now, this is a formula you came up with when you were at the business school, I understand, and I think you should share it.

Tobyn Brooks:
Yeah, I mean, it was born from learning mathematics and statistics and looking at the world in terms of frameworks. So when one goes through an MBA, a business administration degree, you start to look at the world in a different way with a different lens. And that lens is much more analytical and it's full of frameworks. So I started to try and distil the things that had happened through my life. I'd gone from homelessness to a business leader, from not walking to an athlete, and from drug addict to healthy, an uneducated to Oxford academic. I realised that there was a correlation between all of the things that had happened, and that was a theory, a formula that other people could use, and I wanted to find something that I could share. It's basically built around an equation, and that starts with belief.
So it's about the point that the things that we want to achieve, transformations of any type are in the future, they're developments. Think about this in terms of something has to happen on the inside before it ever happens on the outside. And that's how we can look at things that we want to achieve. Because if we create them on the inside, then we're going to create them on the outside. And if we don't, then we are never going to create them. I think the foundation of doing something amazing has to be, you live in that place. When I came to Oxford, I'd already been sitting in the lecture theatres in my mind, I'd already been running marathon, running in my mind, all of those things had happened. I think that we should all set audacious goals and believe in them.
And then there's three things I think that support these transformations, and that's that we need to witness people. Again, Oxford is amazing for that because you look at all these pictures on the walls of the prime ministers and the amazing people that were in class with, and you witness that it is possible to change the world to do amazing things. I think one needs direct experiences. So again, when I talked about the executive assessment and learning mathematics that I needed to celebrate, so I'd write myself a letter at the end of the day and say, "Tobyn, you did really well. You got one question right. That's amazing. You wouldn't have got one right three months ago and you'd do it again tomorrow." And then you need to learn. And learning is transformational. I think those habits, powered by a routine, by a militant following of those behaviours leads to transformation. And I think that's how I distil everything that I've achieved.

Kathy Harvey:
There's two things about you, Tobyn, which I've observed. I think you are yourself a very observant person, and you do watch other people, and also you are very disciplined compared to your earlier life. It really is a transformation. I wonder how you keep that discipline going to run a marathon or to run a half-marathon, to keep studying. You've just started studying for a computer science course, I understand. Having just graduated from Oxford, you haven't had enough. So how do you have that in a discipline now?

Tobyn Brooks:
Yeah, I think from the formula, it is exponentially powered by the routine. So for me, I write a letter to myself every single morning to say that it's my purpose to try and change the world, to try and make it a better place and hold myself to account. Tobyn, what are you going to do today that's going to move us forward? And today, my note was about being able to be lucky enough to come here and talk to you, and that other people might hear this and it might move them forward in their own development in the world. So yeah, I do that religiously every day to keep going.

Kathy Harvey:
So what's next?

Tobyn Brooks:
Well, I'm taking the Harvard's CS50 Foundations of Computer Science course because I think that technology is fascinating. One of the things that I learned from the course from my time at Oxford was really the connection between macroeconomics and entrepreneurship and that the two had joined up, which I don't think I'd considered. And really, if you look at economic prosperity and growth over the years, it's mostly around efficiency, built around efficiencies. So technology is the most acute way to make transformational changes in industries. So I'm researching the way that technology can improve the automotive sector. So whether that's through dynamic using the data in the cars or whether it's through image recognition, requiring less input for human beings in a repair process, I'm not sure yet, but that's where my interest is. So I'd like to do something in the US because it is a great place to go for entrepreneurs, and maybe try and go to Y Combinator or something like that once I've finished my work here.

Kathy Harvey:
So if you were writing an application form now to try and persuade me that you deserve this next step, what would you say?

Tobyn Brooks:
Well, I think I would probably say that the things that I had done in my life up until now were an indication of what was going to happen in the future and that I was going to change the world, and that's what I'm driven to do. I won't stop until I feel that I've made the world a better place. So I think that it would be that and the hard work and that I'm just not going to stop and I'm going to keep trying. I think that that's something that maybe is underappreciated or overlooked sometimes today. I'll always hire an employee that will be honest and work hard, and that's the thing that got me into Oxford. I know when I looked at Oxford before I was invited to join the course, I didn't realise how valuable that was. So it doesn't matter in this world if you think you've got nothing at all because you've always got hard work, and that hands down beats everything else.

Kathy Harvey:
I think it's an understatement to say that this conversation has been truly inspiring and, for me and I think for many of the people listening to the podcast, quite an emotional experience. I really wish you well in your next adventure Tobyn. Thank you so much for studying with Oxford, and thank you so much for this conversation.

Tobyn Brooks:
Yeah, it's my pleasure. I hope that I can continue to contribute towards the school as I move forward. So thank you.

Kathy Harvey:
You've been listening to The Application from Oxford University's Saïd Business School. You can catch up with all our episodes wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to know more about Saïd Business School, take a look at the Oxford Answers section on our website or check out the programme pages for more inspiring stories about our Executive MBA alumni. The Application is produced by Philippa Goodrich and Oxford Digital Media. I'm Kathy Harvey, associate dean of Saïd Business School. Thank you for listening.