So Hi Marc, it's wonderful to be with you today welcome to Oxford Conversations on Ownership. I am Dr Mary Johnstone-Louis Programme Director of The Ownership Project here at Oxford Saïd Business School and here with Marc Fielmann. I'm really pleased to kick off with you today. You are CEO of Fielmann you're based in Germany and as we start the conversation what are the headlines that you would like our listeners to know about Fielmann as a company? Well Fielmann is a family business we are stock-listed based in Germany as you said our main products are eyewear and hearing aids and we serve 27 million customers across 15 countries in Europe, mainly central Europe and a little bit beyond that and we have a very customer-centric philosophy. That means we do everything with a clear focus on our customers and that has led us to market leadership across most Central European countries and we are now expanding especially in Western and in Southern Europe. We have around 20-22 000 contributors, employees and we have around sales of 1.6 billion that's roughly maybe some benchmarks. Well and you sell every second pair of German spectacles I learned. Correct. We operate only five percent of the stores but we sell every second pair of glasses in Germany which shows that we have a very clear focus on productivity and we aim to cater to every customer and we don't focus on a specific customer group. Got it, and so you're the CEO of Fielmann, but also tell me a little bit more about your role in light of the business particularly as an owner how you sit within the business today? I would say we are a very typical family business. We're now in the second generation, so this means that my father founded the business in 1972 we went to the stock market in 1994. So obviously we have a board, in Germany we have two boards the Supervisory Board and the Executive Management Board. I am the CEO, so the Chairman of the Executive Board and I'm also representing the family's interests who control now around 71 % of the stock of the group but we also have a big group of other shareholders and then obviously the Supervisory Board is representing all shareholders, and I represent the interests of the family that is the majority owner. So it's a perfect segue to our next question which is really around the theme of responsible ownership. So as you lay out the set of responsibilities and the perspective that you bring as an owning family, what does the term responsible ownership mean to you, Marc? I would say that it is one of accountability and of a long-term outlook so I think what puts our company apart is as I said before a very clear customer focus. I would I would think that a lot of businesses say these things today but as a business, we have really integrated customer orientation in every part of our business and I always like to point out the incentive system that we have, as one of many many examples because in English I think there is the nice saying to put your money where your mouth is so I believe that a lot of businesses they speak about customer satisfaction we actually do pay for it in our incentive systems from the store management up to the board. Customer satisfaction for us is a big part of the compensation in many levels actually 50 or more of the bonus of our managers depends on customer satisfaction. At the same time, we understand that we can only operate our business thanks to our employees so I would say that we have a company culture a philosophy that is very people-centric and we hope that we not only say this but we live up to this we invest a lot of money in continued professional development in the career opportunities of our employees we do a lot to help also people from a disadvantaged background to make a good career in our company we support this a lot and I think that my father once said that, and that is written down in our company principles that a company can only work in an intact social environment. So by that we mean as a company we have the benefit of operating in a stable environment with the rule of law with democracy where everybody can freely move but this is not something that is let's say normal but it's something that we are very grateful for and as a company, we aim to make our own contribution to doing that this means that we support for example the environment by planting a tree for every employee every year we've planted over 1.6 million trees and bushes across Europe so far. We are supporting youth teams we are supporting museums, especially smaller museums, and we are also operating a very I hope stringent CSR management. One thing that I remember very strongly is your approach to training, so if you could just say a few words about the optometrists that you train in Germany and how you do that? So I mean for us a core reason for our success is our employees and their motivation and their qualification. We train for example, with around five percent of stores in Germany, we train more than 40 percent of all opticians in Germany so those are usually people graduating from high school or from college. They're between 16 and 18, and if we train more than 40 percent this means that although we only have five percent of the stores we nearly train every second optician in Germany. We invest more than 20 million every year and I believe last year it was let's say the let's take 2019 because it was unaffected by corona, I think we had something between 6 or seven training days per employee, so everybody had at least six or seven days of training per year per employee. That is something that is very important to us because it's important for our customers and the qualification I believe is something that drives service and that also allows our staff to continuously develop themselves and to grow their own careers. Absolutely, and you mentioned at the start of your response on what responsible ownership means to you, you mentioned this idea of a long-term perspective, so for you, in your role, in your Chief Executive role, and also for Fielmann more broadly from an ownership perspective, what does long-term mean can you put numbers on that? I would say from a family perspective long-term means a generation because obviously as a family business, my father handed a very very healthy business to me and clearly, it's my goal as well to be able to hand it as a very healthy functioning and intact business to the successive generation. So that is why long-term for me as a family view I would say that that's a generation; from a company view it depends obviously on the target group but as a family business I believe you always have the benefit that you can take a very very long-term view. And most of our investors that are not the family are also investors that have a very very long-term view. We don't have so many, let's say, speculative investors, so I would say that in the company long-term means at least five if not 10 years. We are just as happy to sell a pair of glasses for 10 euros as we are to sell the highest quality branded frame with branded lenses that cannot go up to the many hundreds of euros. For us, the only point that matters is that the customer is happy and that he or she comes and repurchases usually after three to four years. I think this way, we're quite successful as a company because we have people, maybe when they're students, or when they're starting their first job they don't have a lot of money they can spend on a pair of glasses, but because they receive the same service and the same good quality they stay loyal to us. So this way today we have retention rates of well over 90 percent and most of our customers come to Fielmann, not so much because of the advertising that we do, but because of personal recommendations. And I think if you look at that from a very profit-oriented perspective, you might not be able to build such a business model, because the first or the second purchase of that customer might not be profitable for you. Interesting. So in your experience do responsible owners have to be long-term owners? Why or why not from your perspective? I think long-term and especially long-term accountability is important so I think it's really great if you are an owner that takes responsibility and that you know that you are accountable now and also in the future, because obviously if the incentives are too short term so maybe only for one or two years then you will not care so much what will happen let's say two three four years ahead. If we take the extreme example of a family business owner that wants to pass a healthy company to the next generation he or she, I believe, would take actions that are prudent so that the business can survive many years from now. On the other hand maybe one argument against long-term outlook not in general but specifically we've seen this in the last let's say 12 months with the coronavirus pandemic, I believe that responsible ownership can also mean taking very short-term decisive action and taking a stand and taking action in a situation where we need we need to act very fast. So in the coronavirus pandemic, we didn't have so much time to think long-term but keeping the company, keeping a family business healthy long-term means that you need to act very decisively very fast. So we had no idea in March last year how the virus would affect all of us and because we didn't know that and because everybody had concerns we closed for example all of our shops until we procured the protective equipment, we bought 10 million masks, we bought hand sanitizer, everything that you needed to operate the business safely, we conducted scientific research into how to best safeguard both our customers and our employees and only then, three or four weeks later we reopened the stores and, at the same time, because we were able to get so many masks, we donated three million masks, we donated protective glasses, and we made a contribution to society because we believe that as I said before only in an intact society can we also thrive as a business. The faster business, politics, science, together can beat this pandemic, the faster can we go back to a world that is liveable for all of us, and of course, as a business, we also have a big interest in that So that interest of course is a little bit more short-term even though I hope that it's responsible. Absolutely and where have you learned or been most inspired about responsible ownership? Who do you look up to in this area? I'll try to answer your first question first and then the second one I think in terms of inspiration I think it's part of the upbringing, so I would look at my parents, that obviously taught me very early on that with ownership comes responsibility, and in our particular situation because we are a household brand across many Central European households, when you carry the same name that means that wherever you go your actions will be connected to your name, and therefore in our case also to the company, so that taught me very early on to be very mindful about the actions that I take, so I think that was the beginning for myself, and I think nowadays when you follow business, when you follow politics, I think that I look up to anyone who walks the talk. So, who really conducts his or her actions on what she is saying and not only saying a) and doing b), and I think we have in the Family Advisory Council in Oxford, we have some very great examples of that in the group that you and your team you have brought together. What is your number one piece of advice for family owners who maybe are listening to this and want to become more responsible owners? I'm of an age where I don't like to give a lot of advice to anyone, but maybe I can share my own experience. I think your research has yielded some of the most interesting insights that I have gotten, and also I think that extensive insight can be gained from that. Personally, I think as a family business owner, and as a member of a family that owns a business, I think it's very healthy if you explain very well to your children why your business is making a contribution. I believe that my generation, I would think that probably also successive generations, are quite critical of issues such as purpose, such as emissions, such as climate change, and so on and so forth, so I think this will be a discussion that that will be held between let's say the principal of a family and successive generations and I would think that this discussion will lead in a good direction of shaping a purpose and a meaning for a family business. I think to have a discussion with the next generation is probably the best advice that I can give. Would you have any advice that you would give to someone who is completing their MBA and wants to turn their degree into positive impact. What would you say to them? I read a recording, a transcript of a speech that Jeff Bezos recently held at the graduation ceremony and he said one sentence that shaped me quite a lot. He was sharing a childhood story and he was I believe quoting his grandfather and he said "cleverness is a gift, kindness is a choice". I believe no matter in what part you follow your career I think it's very important to understand that your choices in life define who you are, and when you look back on your life when you're old, I believe that the fact that you have made the right choices will make you reflect on yourself. I believe that when you're doing an MBA in Oxford, you're probably among the smartest people on the planet otherwise you probably wouldn't have been admitted to that programme and if you are now about to graduate from that programme you're probably even smarter because you got educated by some of the best academic staff in the world so if you achieve that I think it's about you time that you contemplate on questions such as: If you are under pressure will you do the easy thing or will you do the right thing? If you are if you are put on the spot in a big group what will you stand for? What do you want to leave in the world when you leave? To think about this type of question and to have those questions affect your choices that you're making now in a very important time of your life, because now you set the basis for your career, you set the basis for the path that you will walk in life and I think that's a very important time. I believe that anyone who has a very intact moral compass and who has thought about these questions will have an easy time answering this, so I believe that this advice is maybe superfluous for many of your MBA graduates because they know very well where they're going. Well thanks so much, Marc it's really a pleasure to spend time talking with you, thanks so much, and I think we can take away your very wise remarks - the kindness is the choice.